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Post by totam3clips3 on Nov 5, 2014 15:26:57 GMT -8
Hi! I have to questions which I think may be of interest to anybody willing to try "do it yourself" journey in making a porcelain BJD. 1. First one probably has a very obvious answer. Are wooden balls a necessity when putting together a prototype in polymer clay? or are them just an easier way to build the joints? reinventing the wheel doesn't sound cool to me! there's already so much to learn here! but I also wonder if custom shaped joints might be useful. 2. This is the answer that's really bugging me: are plaster molds capable to retain small details? And from another point of view: is sculpting a very detailed master/prototype desiderable when building a porcelain doll? I have seen unbaked porcelain pieces just taken out of the mold which looked much simpler when compared to the finished result. So I wondered if details must be gently sculpted on the unbaked porcelain. I also hardly believe soft porcelain will keep very small details. I never saw anybody saying "keep your master's shape simple otherwise you'll do a mess"... but being a total newbie I have been living with this nightmare! Thank you for reading and have a good day/night you all! ^^
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Post by caracal on Nov 6, 2014 0:29:53 GMT -8
I am a newbie with my doll making, but here is what I have learned by far ; 1; wooden balls are the easy way -but I had to shape my doll's kneejoints without balls, simply because I didn't find right shape&size balls when I was making that part. If possible, use wooden balls... 2; because I am beginner and just learning things as I go by, I think small details do show in the unbaked porcelain (like nails etc) -one just needs to make good plaster mold (I am still learning to do that ). Tiny details, like lines in palms and fingers and lips are made afterwords (either on the unbaked or soft baked pieces) The key to get good pieces is in the making of good plaster molds -in my opinion . (At the moment I am waiting now one palster mold to dry, gonna open it in few minutes and I am scared already if I did it ok this time... ) And now some professional person should tell how things really go
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Hasel
Senior Member
Posts: 220
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Post by Hasel on Nov 6, 2014 1:13:59 GMT -8
1 I never used them, caus my dolls are big and I'm to lazy to search for the right size wooden ball XD
2 plaster holds detail very well, It's in the molding that you might lose some of the detail. But my molds even show my finger prints (I sand after the porcelin has dries which is not usual) You do need to make sure that all your pieces are molded in such a way that the mold is releasable. Plaster is rigid and you need to think of that while you sculpt (believe me, 6 part molds are no fun to make)
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Post by totam3clips3 on Nov 6, 2014 20:01:12 GMT -8
Thank you caracal and Hasel ^^ It has become clear to me that making molds is an art by itself. Best idea seems to practice on how to make molds and sculpting at the same time, since the bond between them is so strong...! p.s. Hasel, I believe you! A 6 part mold sounds like hell!
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fawkes
Senior Member
Posts: 297
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Post by fawkes on Nov 7, 2014 4:31:03 GMT -8
You can use marbles instead of wooden balls for smaller joints like knees, wrists...but I think they're necessary for the rotation (it's difficult to make a perfectly round shape and why waste time doing that when balls are available) Hasel is right to say that plaster molds keep details very well. But keep in mind that the smoother your prototype is, the better your cast will be. It will also save time as you won't have too much cleaning and reshaping to do.
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tinyshirt
Senior Member
"I am doll parts"
Posts: 249
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Post by tinyshirt on Nov 8, 2014 7:21:09 GMT -8
I have never used wooden balls in my work. If you use wooden balls it is hard to find ones that fit perfectly unless you build your doll around those wooden parts. When you make a master you can include many details that will make an impression in the plaster (use pottery plaster) however, when you make a mold you have to be careful about undercuts which are areas on your original sculpture that will get trapped in the mold. It takes practice and trial and error to fully understand where an undercut will be. Sometimes you can deal with that area by making another part in the mold, like when molding a head, you might need to make a separate pieces for the ears. You can also add details later after taking the casting out and before firing it, nostrils are a good example of this. Here is a photo of how to deal with the ear. I ended up making a 5 part mold for this head: 017 by Tiny Shirt, on Flickr
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Post by totam3clips3 on Nov 13, 2014 14:02:45 GMT -8
I have never used wooden balls in my work. If you use wooden balls it is hard to find ones that fit perfectly unless you build your doll around those wooden parts. When you make a master you can include many details that will make an impression in the plaster (use pottery plaster) however, when you make a mold you have to be careful about undercuts which are areas on your original sculpture that will get trapped in the mold. It takes practice and trial and error to fully understand where an undercut will be. Sometimes you can deal with that area by making another part in the mold, like when molding a head, you might need to make a separate pieces for the ears. You can also add details later after taking the casting out and before firing it, nostrils are a good example of this. Here is a photo of how to deal with the ear. I ended up making a 5 part mold for this head: 017 by Tiny Shirt, on Flickr thank you for your kind help! the mold in the photo looks very hard to make. I have asked my local art supply shop and he didn't know anything about pottery plaster! >< but there are many many pottery workshops in my area so I can always ask them where they buy their supplies. I googled about plaster and It was all clear (maybe?) after a loong very confusing read! :~ there are so many different kinds of plaster; pity on me for having thought that plaster was simply... just... "plaster"! the general rule is that the stronger = the less water it will absorb, and so it will be worse for slip casting purpose, right? so it must be that porcelain molds are very fragile... sounds so difficult!
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Hasel
Senior Member
Posts: 220
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Post by Hasel on Nov 14, 2014 1:17:12 GMT -8
No that part about stronger = less water it will absorb is not true. I have used 3 kinds of different plaster now, personally the difference between them is so small I do not care for the special (more expensive) plaster used for porcelain moldmaking. The cheapest, bought in a big sack of 20 kg stuff was the best in my opinion, it sucks just as much as the special stuff and it holds detail just as well. I also found it less runny then the special kind. You also don't want a super-sucking mold because then it's harder to time it to make all your pieces the same thickness. The trick about making great plaster is making a good mix with the water, I had a great teacher in artschool who chiseled this into my brain XD First you take a cup (I use a cut in half rubber ball) and you fill it with water as much as you need, but not more then the half of the cup or it might overflow. Then you get your plaster, you 'snow' it into the water, this takes a lot of time but you need to make sure you don't drop any clumps in there so just powder it in. Try to make sure you don't do it only in the middle, but spread it over the cup. You contineu this until you start to see a survace. This is where you decide how strong your plaster will be, you can either stop or continue, I continue as I prefer the stronger plaster. You keep snowing until you get a thin survace that does not darken inmediatly, this you let sit for a minute or 2. Then you gently mix it with your hand (because then you can feel the thickness/warmth etc well) make sure to mix gently to not mix in any air. The longer the plaster sits the more stiff it will get, I usually let it sit till it has the consistancy of yoghurt and then I pour it in my mold. Make sure to wipe your hands on a old towel or paper towels becaus when you wash them the plaster gets into your tubing system and thats not very good for it. Also, I use the rubber ball because when the plaster has set I can easily crumble it out because the ball is soft
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Post by allurose on Nov 14, 2014 6:30:04 GMT -8
Wow! I am commiting these expert tips to memory! Thank you, hasel!
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Post by totam3clips3 on Nov 14, 2014 13:53:01 GMT -8
Wow! I am commuting these expert tips to memory! Thank you, hasel! Quote, quote! Really valuable info, thank you so much Hasel! =)
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