I'll be happy to close the dispute once I hear one way or the other from the artist- I totally trust her. But the IDC? I think not. Who knows what they are telling her or what they will do? What I don't want to happen is for the IDC to pressure her into shipping for free...
I actually don't see what the big deal is coughing up the cost of shipping to correct the issue. They did ship via insured mail and I took pictures, so why can't they just open a claim with that info and get a refund from EMS? Isn't insurance specifically to cover such things? It makes me think they are just being lazy.
So disappointed with the IDC people. Everything has now resolved "in my favor" but really, it was a poor resolution for all of us, and all because the IDC was just so reluctant to respond.
So here is a summary of what has happened:
May 13 - I received the doll, when I took her out of the box that night, her hand fell apart. The auction listing says the doll would ship insured, so I emailed IDC immediately:
Hi! I received the doll today- she is so beautiful! She looked so perfect, but I am sorry to say- that when I took her out of her box, her fingers fell off! There are some pictures here:http://heartsofclay.freeforums.net/thread/832/gift-clara-fornari
What should I do? Do you think the artist has another hand ? Would it match? Was the box insured? I'm so sorry to be asking for help, should I contact the artist?
Thank you for your help-
Same day, I located the artist on facebook- who said she'd send me a new hand, but since she hadn't shipped the doll, I would need to cover the cost of shipping
May 16 - I emailed IDC again:
Hi again. I contacted the artist. She is willing to mail a new hand. Would you be willing to ship the hand to me for her?
IDC did not respond.
May 23rd- I open a claim on ebay- requesting only the cost of shipping a new hand, advising that i had been unable to establish contact with the seller, but that the cost of shipping a new hand should probably be covered under the shipping insurance. I attached pictures.
May 27th - No response from IDC so I click the button for asking ebay to intervene. Meanwhile- I have been in contact with the artist, who is SUPER sweet. She has been looking into postage cost and finding a box to mail the hand in so it won't break. After reading my introduction to her dolls on this forum, she also volunteered to send me a COA! I think that it was simply a mistake it hadn't been included.
May 31st- ebay advises they are putting the case "on hold" for five days- and that the seller has been advised they should EITHER issue return shipping or a label to return the doll. At this point- if they had simply issued the cost of shipping the hand, the dispute would be closed. But that is not what happened.
June 1st - IDC messages
we decide to pay the cost of shipping of the second hand. We will contact the artist personally and we will send you the hand as soon as possible." We ask you if you can close the dispute asap!
Meanwhile- the artist has asked would I be willing to paypal her the approx $44 for shipping of the hand and COA. Of course I told her I would be happy to if IDC did not cover it.
I also responded the same day (June 1st) to IDC:
Hi there- the artist has just told me the cost of shipping is $44 and comes with insurance- if you could refund that amount i will send it to her, and close the dispute. Thanks!
Alas, no further response from IDC
June 3rd the artist messages me- she has not heard from the IDC people. She advises that the total for shipping was actually $47 and if I could paypal this to her she'd mail the hand. Of course I paypaled her immediately.
I then send another message to IDC:
The artist has not heard from you. I went ahead and paid the artist (Clara Fornari) $47 for the cost of shipping a new hand to me. If you'd like to see the receipt, let me know. If you could kindly send me the $47 I paid, that would be great. You can open an insurance claim to obtain the money back since the package was shipped insured. If you need photos to help with your claim let me know.
for Dynamo Camp is ok give you back the money. We are trying to get the money back from PayPal. We will let you know when and how asap.
June 9th- I got the hand in the mail. I sent IDC another message:
I received the hand from the artist- could you please send the reimbursement for the shipping of $47? Thank you!
June 11th - ebay says they've made a "final decision" and the dispute is closed. But instead of refunding the $47 I have been asking for- they say they will refund the entire price of the doll to my paypal. Nothing showed up in paypal so I didn't think it had gone through yet. (It was late on Friday night). I figured once the payment went through, I would probably hear IDC - and I'd see if they would be willing to accept the refund I had received less the $47 shipping for the new hand.
Earlier this week I checked paypal- and no refund. But then I checked my credit cards, and sure enough- the refund had been posted- directly to the credit card.
June 17th IDC finally emails me:
considering you already received back the reimbursement, on monday june 20th DHL will come to pick up the doll. All expences will be on our charge.
Please, keep the doll packed safely. Thank you.
What a terrible resolution. Also, what about the hand that the artist sent me? I emailed them asking if they want the hand since I would not have a use for it if they are taking the doll back. I have not yet tried to fix the broken one. If they are asking for the doll back to resell, I assume they will need the hand. If they just need the doll for their insurance claim, I assume they will not.
I don't know what else to do. This entire process has left me feeling quite bitter.
EDIT- NEW - I received from the IDC an email:
Hi dear Sarah,
I reply on behalf of the Italian doll convention.
I wrote yo on Facebook this week and didnt get any answer.
I truly would like to understand what has happening.
The doll was successfully paid and received from Dynamo Camp and as we learnt form the artist, Clara, the hand was broken accidentally during her setting up.
The Artist, we contacted after your messages about the broken hand, was open to asset you and produced a new hand for you, and asked only for the shipping cost, which I personally think it’s a fair request as the doll arrived safely protected.
Why did you requested a total refund to Dynamo Camp?
I suppose your wanted the doll and I am sure the doll was at a fair price on the Ebay auction. Moreover I remind you that all the money was for a good cause, whelping a great association.
Can you pleas explain me the reason of a total refund request?
Why can you simply pay back the doll and keep the doll as you originally did for the charity?
Sorry, I tried many times to get in contact and asked to clara also to give me informations about your situation and everything looked pretty good.
At this point , Dynamo Camp is trying to find a solution as you didnt reply to our messages.
I wait for your kind reply.
What? I NEVER asked ebay for a full refund. All they had to do was resolve the dispute with me by refunding my $47 and filing an insurance claim with DHL. OR if they preferred that I return the doll, they could have refunded the shipping or sent a label. It was only because they did not act that Ebay triggered a refund. IDC could have stopped it any time between May 13th and June 11th - after numerous opportunities and ebay advising what needed to happen.
I think they are also suggesting that either I broke the doll, or the artist had broken the doll before it was mailed to me. But I did not break her. If the artist broke her, why didn't they tell me before shipping her?
I don't think it fair that I get both the doll and a full refund. I'd be happy to send the doll back at this point. I know that they will have received their ebay fees back since ebay issued a refund- so they could even have asked me to send the total for the doll less the $47 shipping and come out way ahead (after not having to pay ebay its 10%). That is what I would have asked if I had been running this.
Instead they send this message. I'm still not sure what to do. Send the total for the doll less $47? Send the doll back? Could it be they don't know how to open an insurance claim? What is the point of expensive shipping with insurance if not to cover loss or breakage?
I will admit I'm not feeling very happy about this right now. I do not think the IDC has handled this at all well, and I am starting to question their integrity.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2016 12:42:17 GMT -8 by galacticat: new email
This is totally OUTRAGEOUS !!! You should send the doll back with the broken hand because that is the damage you have claimed to eBay. If you send the good hand to them, they may photograph it and recontact eBay saying, "look, see, nothing was wrong with the doll." Since you are in contact with the artist, why don't you use the refund to order a new doll from her. The 47 bucks will be a loss. Keep the good hand. If they want it then they will have to pay for shipping. Sometimes, there is no reasoning with certain people, they will just drive you crazy. In this case, do everything by the book, regardless if this was for charity or not. It seems they are making excuses on purpose!
They do not know how to use eBay but they know to ask you to drop the claim?? BS!
Just, really, really outrageous of the Italian Doll Convention !!!!! You are not the bad guy!
Can anyone on the forum here read and write Italian fluently? Perhaps you could help Galacticat get her point across to these people.
I forgot something.... when the IDC get the damaged doll back, they can get the fully insured cost for her from DHL. That will cover their charity donation. You don't need to feel bad about anything, Galacticat.
Post by galacticat on Jun 17, 2016 14:01:19 GMT -8
So I gave the IDC guy the timeline above- I told him I had never received any message from him on facebook. Just the few through ebay as noted. I told him I was pretty upset about the fact that I was essentially made promises and strung along- and all the while it appears IDC never intended to refund the shipping because they though it was "fair" that I pay it.
He gave me this response:
I have read all your email and of course I agree with you.
I think you are taking my email as an accuse but it was not intended to be, otherwise it was a way to understand what happened.
one important thing:
I am the chairman of Italian Doll Convention and I organized 6 edition of charity auctions. For the very first time ever, the charity association wanted to deal the shipping by itself to help me with all the heavy organization and so I never received any of your messages directly.
So it’s NOT IDC responsible for all happened to you and not replying to you.
Dynamo Camp was in charge of communication and due to their low experience with Ebay, they were not aware how to handle the procedure of your complaining and failed on different level, but it was not intentional.
With the time difference between Usa and Italy, and due to the fact Dynamo is an office, with limited operating hours, they were not able to respond always and for few days after the problem, they were not able to take action on this.
I personally called the artist, who told me that you told her the doll arrived perfectly, and this is why I told you so.
I am a well known artist and I deal with shipping and Ebay for over 16 years and I trust people all over the world. The Artist told me that the hand was broken during the dressing of her. Maybe she understood it wrong in your communication but that is why I told you we thought it was “fair”to pay the shipping, as the information I had was it was you to break it. I never understood the doll got to you broken yet and Dynamo Camp told me immediately it was offered to pay the shipping.
But as soon as we contacted the artist in Italy, by phone, you already paid her and told her you agreed to pay.
I personally had at least 5 telephone calls with Dynamo Camp to understand what was happening to your case and it looked like they were replying you offering the shipping cost. So i personally don’t feel ashamed of anything as I did my best to follow your case, even if I personally don’t know you or you never contacted me directly.
I only could tell I learnt my lesson not letting anybody else , except me, managing the whole case from start to the end.
I was out for several days after Idc to work and I was not able to help Dynamo Camp with Ebay, but we never wanted to hurt nobody.
They always told me they contacted you, so that is why I write you today and not earlier, as I never got your email address before.
On last Wednesday I ask you friendship through Facebook, as Clara (the artist) told me it was the way she was in contact with you and you accepted my friendship.
I was trying to understand what was happening and a solution, because I found strange everything.
Now you made it clear how things went and
Anyway, I think that your request of shipping cost was truly acceptable and the artist was truly nice to produce the hand with no extra cost for us.
at the moment, I don’t know how to handle the situation, as it looks like a big lack of communications back to you from Dynamo Camp.
I am truly embarrassed for their lack of communications, and I never wanted to make you feel bad but the situation was not managed by me directly.
About the doll:
the package was done by the artist and this was the very first time ever she shipped out of Italy and I think this is a lesson for her too, who was extremely nice to deal with, so I am sure Clara did her best to fix the situation. She is a great artist and I love her work, as I also havce one of her first porcelain doll too in my collection.
About the Ebay situation, Dynamo was not able to manage the situation and you are right, but at this point, the doll is fine and perfect again and I wonder what you can do for this. What is your proposal?
Please write me personally here, as I will contact Dynamo Camp on Monday (they also are in cc), and try to find a solution.
Thank you so much and once again I apologize for the inconvenience.
So I guess he is saying Dynamo Camp kind of blew it and it wasn't the fault of IDC who had left it to Dynamo to manage the auction. I am not sure what solution to propose. I told him this:
Okay Mario- thank you for your response, your explanation makes more sense.
The doll did not break while being dressed- as I told Clara, the doll arrived perfect except for her fingers. They were obviously cracked in shipping because when I lifted her out of the box, they tumbled off. It happens all the time, especially when the hands are not wrapped. I have not fixed the doll yet which is why I offered to send the new hand I received back with her. I also now have a beautiful COA Clara made that I can send.
It is easy to file an insurance claim with DHL, you just fill out the online form and send them pictures of the package and the damage. I had sent links of the damage to the ebay seller so they could do just that. I truly do not understand why they would ship the doll by expensive insured mail if they can't figure out how to file an insurance claim when a doll gets damaged.
I thought the auction was run by the IDC because the auction listing says: DYNAMO CAMP"
in partnership with Italian Doll Convention
is proud to introduce this Charity Auction 100% proceed will help DYNAMO CAMP for the 2016 Summer
The Italian Doll Convention is a fashion dolls event which is at its sixth edition and always supported charity Onlus associations, collecting special edition and one o a kind dolls to be auctioned... "
I do feel hurt and frustrated by this process and don't know how to respond to you. I do think there is some misunderstanding attributable to our languages being different, but I also think that whoever was running this action was trying to take advantage of me.
It would have been so easy to resolve this case before ebay had to step in- and all they had to do was partially refund $47 and then file an insurance claim. They even said they would do it and tried to get me to close the claim. But then they did nothing. It appears they were hoping they would get me to close the claim and then not have to do anything. I have bought and sold many dolls from Italian collectors- mostly Sybs and Kingdom Doll, but they have always been responsive and honest.
The way I was treated in this auction- honestly, makes me worry about the honest/integrity of whoever it was that ran the auction. You say it was Dynamo Camp and not IDC. Well that makes me worry about how onest Dynamo Camp is. If they are trying to take advantage of this small situation with me, how trustworthy are they as an organization and are they an organization I want to donate to? Maybe not.
I do truly wish that Dynamo or IDC had done something to resolve this at any point within the last 30 days. I can no longer pay through ebay since the case is closed due to inaction by Dynamo Camp or IDC. Whoever owns the account will receive their ebay fees back (about $83). Presumably they can still file an insurance claim, but I don't know for sure since they have waited so long.
I will ask my doll friends what to do and get back to you. This situation makes me feel very sad.
So what should I do ? Is DHL going to show up on Monday for the doll? Should I sent the cost of the doll, less the $47 shipping- to... who? Dynamo? IDC? This guy? I am starting to be suspicious of Dynamo since I feel they tried to take advantage of me. I can understand language issues and delays due to it being a charity- but really? They couldn't resolve the issue anytime sooner than 30 days? Really?
And how to pay- I can no longer pay through ebay since they allowed the claim to close without providing any resolution first.
Such a mess. Your thoughts are appreciated. What should I do now?
I now understand why some collectors are reluctant to trade with Italy.... Sutton is right , this case is absolutely outrageous. What they say in their various messages sounds like bullshit. If you send the doll back I think you should definitely keep the new hand. Ordering directly from the artist is an idea too if you feel like it. As far as I'm concerned I think asking $47 to send a hand is outrageous too. It's the shipping price I usually pay for a complete doll. If I were the artist and this had happened to one of my creations first I would be furious at the organizers and I would send the spare part for free. Also I don't understand why DHL should come to your home to collect the doll. If I understood correctly you were refunded for the doll and shipping fees. So now if they want the doll back, first solution : they should send you a shipping label through ebay you can glue on your parcel. Second solution : you can calculate the fee of shipping the doll back to Italy, email it them and ask them to pay the fees through paypal. Do not pay shipping fees yourself! Stand firm. If they want it back, they pay.
Post by galacticat on Jun 18, 2016 10:03:35 GMT -8
The Dynamo eBay definitely did a truly horrible job on this matter, although I've researched the charity and it seems legit. I think probably negligence or laziness or maybe extreme ignorance re eBay and international sales is maybe more likely than fraud. I did think $47 was pretty high but it doesn't sound like the artist has any experience at all with international shipping.
I've asked them to send me an invoice for the doll cost less $47. The IDC guy is very apologetic and thinks that would be a great solution. I guess I'll have to see what happens on Monday!
Thank you both so much for reading this wall of text and for your thoughts, you made me feel much better about it, like I'm not crazy for getting a bit upset.
Oh wow! What a saga! I really hope this gets resolved. It seems like as well as a language barrier there has been a major lack of logic on their part. What a shame about the overall experience being ruined by this. Please keep us updated <3
Fawkes is right, you should have gotten an eBay seller prepaid DHL label. Perhaps that's what Dynamo means by a pick up on the 20th of June. Do not pay for return shipping yourself!
If it were me, I would without wavering, only send the doll back with pre-paid DHL and without the new hand-- that is the eBay resolution and it is just! All Dynamo, or to whoever the seller account is registered to has to do, is put in a damage claim with DHL and they still get their charity money. They won't lose anything.
It seems to me that this is a game of pass the blame involving IDC/Dynamo/Artist. The answers the IDC fellow is giving you are pure polite bullshit. Dynamo Camp Italia maintains a spiffy website and they knew to ask you to close the claim with eBay, BUT, they don't know how eBay works???
If you still want the doll, contact eBay by phone(a bit of a wait!) and get a manager on the line. Explain that the seller now agrees to resell you the doll minus 47 bucks. eBay can allow the seller to relist the item with a new price where only you can pay for the doll (not shown publicly). This is the only way I would send money again! eBay will know through your Paypal account if you rebuy the doll directly from the seller, bypassing eBay. eBay may not like the bypass because they are in the business of getting their commission. I would not trust sending money again any other way to who knows who.
Last Edit: Jun 19, 2016 14:27:53 GMT -8 by Sutton: clearer text
Post by kitnkabootle on Jun 18, 2016 15:33:47 GMT -8
Wow I just read all of this now. If this were happening to me, at first I thought that it would put such a bad taste in my mouth that I wouldn't want the doll as a reminder of it. But then I thought, if this all works out and you're able to pay IDC directly (btw the charity would be getting more money for this doll if there's no cut of the profits going to eBay and another company) - the doll would have had a hell of a story attached to her! You've done a lot of work these last couple of weeks trying to arrange all of this and from the looks of the lovely lady, she's worth it.
I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience though! It is sure a word of warning and why we make feedback threads!
As far far as I'm concerned, I certainly wouldn't send money to either IDC or Dynamo. If you really can't do without this particular doll, why not ask the artist a commission work? She made one doll, so maybe she can recreate her for you.
Post by galacticat on Jun 19, 2016 13:31:43 GMT -8
Yes I am sure they plan to pay for return shipping- I definitely would not pay return shipping as ebay required that they pay it and they initially chose not to.
If they arrange to have the doll picked up on monday, they can have her. If they still want a donation for their charity, I am willing to keep the doll and pay for the price of the listing less the shipping I spent on getting a new hand. The charity does seem to be legit, so I don't like the thought of taking money from it, even when it was due to negligence by their own employee. The artists must trust the Charity, else why would they donate their dolls to it?
Galacticat, you would not be taking any money away from the charity. All the people involved with the sale of your doll have to do is claim damage and DHL will reimburse them the cost of the whole doll. You can't get any fairer than that. They get their charity money anyway.
Whether the charity is legit or not is not the issue, nor is whether the artist trusts the charity or not. The issue is that whoever sells through eBay better know how eBay works so that no buyer be driven to exasperation by being ignored and then given the runaround when merchandise arrives damaged-- regardless if this was a sale for charity or not!!!
eBay does not come up with resolutions, it is the seller that has to come up with a resolution in a buyer's dispute. eBay gives a ruling depending on what the seller answers or does. If the seller does not answer or does nothing, eBay automatically rules in the buyer's favour. It's 100% the seller's fault, through negligence, that eBay ruled you should get a total reimboursement.