Post by totam3clips3 on Nov 22, 2014 14:41:24 GMT -8
Hi everybody! This is one question that has been pushing inside my mind for quite a while... For "modern style" (which is probably meaningless) I mean the complex dolls like Enchanted Dolls, which show many more joints than the usual doll, a great posability and an overall look much different from the traditional porcelain dolls. It looks like they are the product of multiple influences from modern (but also ancient) art, comics, illustrations and fashion photography. I have read somewhere that the BJDs boom started with the introduction of Volks japanese resin ball jointed dolls a few years ago: did porcelain BJDs came after Volks dolls? I talked about Enchanted Dolls just for 2 reasons: they were the first I have seen (and what a crush it was!) and they are a so well known brand that I think they may summarize the genre =) Have a good weekend, hugs to you all! =)
I would like to know the answer to this too. I went to a doll and bear show and was shocked to see that some of the antique porcelain dolls had double joints! Of course they were pretty simple compared to EDs and dolls of similar quality. And the style was very different, they are traditional child dolls. But it did make me wonder. A friend of mine has an antique porcelain doll with at least one spring joint in it, which also got me thinking.
I have heard that Marina was inspired by Martha Armstrong Hand, as have been many other artists. I believe she worked in the 1970-1990 time period but I could be wrong.
Post by nenethomas on Nov 22, 2014 16:15:19 GMT -8
Martha Armstrong Hand's doll were also strung with springs, though she used a loop of elastic in the torso of the body to join the spring attached limbs to. And in her book she mentions that she discovered that some doll artists had been using springs years and years before she stumbled upon it. I really wonder how well MAH doll's actually posed. Sadly there don't seem to be any that come up for sale.
I'm going to add to this convo, though I'm sure all of you already know the things I'm going to say, and I may not even be addressing the true question, and missing the point entirely, if you are speaking of "modern BJD" as it relates to porcelain.
The "modern BJD" is generally accepted to have been created by the marriage of antique doll jointing and stringing, with the use of resin and an Anime aesthetic, by one of the designers working for the Volks Co. in Japan. He created the doll for his wife for her birthday, which was later seen by Mrs. Shigeta, (spelling) wife of the company's owner, who was so intrigued with the doll that she suggested the company add it to its line of resin action figures--to broaden their base and appeal to girls as well as the males, who usually bought their products. The word "dollfie" was derived by combining doll and figure. It would have been in the late l990s. (Don't remember the exact date). The gentleman who created the first dollfie still works for the company.
Porcelain BJD evolved at about the same time, though they were not technically considered BJD (all caps). ABJD was coined by early on-line collectors, to shorten the wordage and designate the difference between the resin "modern/Asian" ball-jointed dolls, which could be altered to suit the owner, i.e. face-ups, repainting, addition or changing of limbs, easy eye changes, and so on.
Is this the kind of information you asking about? Technically Marina's dolls were not true "BJD", though they were ball-jointed. DOA was largely responsible for setting the criteria to use the all caps BJD, which required that the doll be made of resin, strung with elastic, ball-jointing, and changeable eyes and wigs. No porcelain, painted eyes, rooted wigs, or springs were allowed for BJD.
I think the porcelain BJD was born out of artists, who preferred porcelain, to add posing to their work--and Marina was on the forefront of that movement. She is an engineer as well as an artist.
Please excuse all of this if it is not on point or redundant. We do have several ladies in our doll club who have dolls by Martha A. Hand--and they pose quite well, though not as sophisticated in their posing as some of the newer dolls.
Post by totam3clips3 on Dec 8, 2014 14:01:56 GMT -8
These were all very interesting replies! Now everything is clearer to me. The history of this type of dolls sounds a bit mysterious, just like when a new music genre is born. the sources are always multiple! I have seen a similar situation with today's comic art and illustrations: it's evident the presence of a global culture, and she's growing fast and healthy too! ^^
Very interesting. I'm surprised that the artform as we know and love it is so recent. I didnt realize Marina was the first to do it so successfully and artistically. I wonder if in 20 years we will all still be obsessed with this artform. I only started looking at artist dolls about 6 years ago and so far i am still intrigued!
Post by jilljackson on Dec 13, 2014 12:41:47 GMT -8
There may very well have been some earlier artists, Enrico, but Marina is the first to successfully combine porcelain art dolls with BJD technology that "I" am aware of. She was one of the very first to combine a more European sculpt with true posing capabilities, in porcelain--again, that I am aware of. I started out with a few antiques, but mostly art dolls. Porcelain probably wouldn't have been as appealing to me if not for the yellowing of some resins, and the allure of the less Anime looking sculpts that started coming out.
What about the japanese artist who made porcelain ball jointed dolls in the 80s? They had a more realistic European look to them though common in japan. She has published many books. I guess marina just made her style and put more importance on the materials? There is Korean artist I know personally made porcelain bjd long before marina. But he didn't advertise his work much, I think he used to call it noble doll academy. Just because something online is so prominent doesn't mean they are the first of its kind. But maybe first to advertise to that extent.
The Korean artist is named Kim, forgot his first name, but as a career he makes prosthetic eyes. he used to do special affects and on the side he made ball jointed dolls. he is super talented, he can make a 4 foot doll in one week! He used to have a site called noble doll academy, but it is down for now until he resumes tutorials. Unless he all ready started again. And the Japanese artist I think is all ready mentioned in the forum in the discussion thread.
I believe this one. I remember seeing books of her work many years ago. Anyway Russia and Japan have been making dolls for a very long time, it's just I think ED is the first one to make it more accessible over the internet. While if you try to look for these artists online it's more tricky because of the whole language barrier and access. artists are starting to come on Facebook.
I know what you mean about the language barrier. I feel like there are so many doll artists I havent seen. They keep popping out of the woodwork as the language barrier is overcome. Finding dolls is the primary reason I like facebook
check out the German wood carver Albert Schoenhut (1872-1935). By 1911 his patent was approved for his All Wood Perfection Art Dolls, which were made out of wood, had ball joints and had metal springs. In the Pinterest I found a Schoenhut doll saleman's sample, which shows the springs inside the doll -such a cool photo . The doll is again a child doll, and the material is wood -but it was interesting to see that the springs were used over hundred years ago to put a doll together! Oh, there are so many fantastic photos of antique dolls in Pinterest. I think I could spend the whole day just looking at pictures in there. And all those photos of antique clothing..... Heaven!!!!!!
Post by jilljackson on Jan 4, 2015 11:57:42 GMT -8
There is an old saying that, "There is nothing new under the sun". Sometimes the timing is just right, or (as Lazhielle has already mentioned) the advertising is better or more long-reaching. Sometimes it's a case of a large enough number of dolls being created to reach enough people to create a large fan base.
I have an old Shoenhut "dolly face" and she poses pretty well, especially for the time she was made. But, they are not what I would call a graceful doll and not always very pretty.
In the end, it is not always who creates something first, but the artist whose dolls speak to us and what they convey. Why did Elvis leave most of us breathless? Why does the Mona Lisa still draw record crowds at the Louvre? Why do Marina's dolls seem to be truly enchanted individuals, captured in a doll's body?