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Post by allurose on Sept 20, 2015 9:00:39 GMT -8
You can also add paper pulp to the slip; the fiber in the paper adds strength to the porcelain and can be worked, carved, torn etc. more easily. Wow, thats so cool! There is so much I don't know still...
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Sutton
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Post by Sutton on Sept 20, 2015 17:13:21 GMT -8
Maybe she uses paper porcelain? Allurose, the idea of mixing lace and porcelain slip is something I've wanted to try for quite some time...I haven't done it yet though. I wonder if the lace will burn off properly and leave the porcelain intact. I am so skeptical. I would worry that when the lace burns from inside the slip, the remaining shell of fired slip would be too thin to withstand any kind of refining/painting/end use. It would be as thin as tissue paper and not much stronger, wouldn't it? People have been making impressions with lace in clay for a long time, and artists like Marmite Sue have achieved some detailed lace-like work with carving away at a master or the cast porcelain. I haven't seen anything like this done before myself. Obviously it is worth trying! The effect as seen in Rafael's photo is just amazing. Allurose, you are correct, it is lace dipped in slip and not carved or sculpted. Lace dipped in slip and fired is extremely fragile, even tiny lace pieces, let alone big ones. They fall off or sections break off very easily unless coated very very thickly. Lace dipped in slip at the neckline is a disaster waiting to happen... BUT...maybe Rafael has some secret formula or technique up her sleeve(a là Fawkes). I've seen lace slip fired flat to a porcelain bjd and it was coming off in sections with minimum handling, so I'm not just speculating. I personally would never buy a porcelain doll with applied lace after what I saw. But, like I wrote, maybe Rafael has some secret way to make standing lace work. It would be somewhat miraculous! I'm hoping for it.
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Post by rafael on Sept 20, 2015 19:19:48 GMT -8
I am so skeptical. I would worry that when the lace burns from inside the slip, the remaining shell of fired slip would be too thin to withstand any kind of refining/painting/end use. It would be as thin as tissue paper and not much stronger, wouldn't it? People have been making impressions with lace in clay for a long time, and artists like Marmite Sue have achieved some detailed lace-like work with carving away at a master or the cast porcelain. I haven't seen anything like this done before myself. Obviously it is worth trying! The effect as seen in Rafael's photo is just amazing. Allurose, you are correct, it is lace dipped in slip and not carved or sculpted. Lace dipped in slip and fired is extremely fragile, even tiny lace pieces, let alone big ones. They fall off or sections break off very easily unless coated very very thickly. Lace dipped in slip at the neckline is a disaster waiting to happen... BUT...maybe Rafael has some secret formula or technique up her sleeve(a là Fawkes). I've seen lace slip fired flat to a porcelain bjd and it was coming off in sections with minimum handling, so I'm not just speculating. I personally would never buy a porcelain doll with applied lace after what I saw. But, like I wrote, maybe Rafael has some secret way to make standing lace work. It would be somewhat miraculous! I'm hoping for it. Sutton I am sorry that you've never seen porcelain lace work in the long run, but I have. That is the technique I have used in creating my lace porcelain and I am more than confident it will stand the test of time.
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Sutton
Senior Member
Posts: 348
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Post by Sutton on Sept 21, 2015 4:36:14 GMT -8
Allurose, you are correct, it is lace dipped in slip and not carved or sculpted. Lace dipped in slip and fired is extremely fragile, even tiny lace pieces, let alone big ones. They fall off or sections break off very easily unless coated very very thickly. Lace dipped in slip at the neckline is a disaster waiting to happen... BUT...maybe Rafael has some secret formula or technique up her sleeve(a là Fawkes). I've seen lace slip fired flat to a porcelain bjd and it was coming off in sections with minimum handling, so I'm not just speculating. I personally would never buy a porcelain doll with applied lace after what I saw. But, like I wrote, maybe Rafael has some secret way to make standing lace work. It would be somewhat miraculous! I'm hoping for it. Sutton I am sorry that you've never seen porcelain lace work in the long run, but I have. That is the technique I have used in creating my lace porcelain and I am more than confident it will stand the test of time. Great, looking forward to seeing it.
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Sutton
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Post by Sutton on Sept 21, 2015 12:29:04 GMT -8
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Post by allurose on Sept 21, 2015 18:03:27 GMT -8
Sorry, I meant to say I have seen applied lace, like in the first two examples, but not lace sticking out as in Rafael's photo. I have applied lace to ceramic projects before myself, but always flat against the clay.
Thank you, I had not heard of Dresden lace. The figures I saw were really amazing! Perhaps Rafael is using the same technique. I wish I could see some Dresden lace in person to get an idea how fragile it is. "Fragile" is so relative, like some people would be terrified to break a porcelain bjd's fingers, but it doesn't scare me (assuming normal use).
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Sutton
Senior Member
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Post by Sutton on Sept 21, 2015 19:19:24 GMT -8
Thank you, I had not heard of Dresden lace. The figures I saw were really amazing! Perhaps Rafael is using the same technique. I wish I could see some Dresden lace in person to get an idea how fragile it is. "Fragile" is so relative, like some people would be terrified to break a porcelain bjd's fingers, but it doesn't scare me (assuming normal use). About fragility, well porcelain restorer forums are always full of requests about what to do for broken lace on Dresden figures. The lace is ranked as highly fragile, and this is on a static figure that is not ball jointed or played with. Bjd fingers are nowhere near Dresden lace fragility. So you see my misgivings about porcelain lace at a jointed neck area. Actually, it would have to be done in another way than the Dresden slip-dipped cotton lace technique.
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Post by rafael on Sept 22, 2015 3:23:35 GMT -8
Thank you, I had not heard of Dresden lace. The figures I saw were really amazing! Perhaps Rafael is using the same technique. I wish I could see some Dresden lace in person to get an idea how fragile it is. "Fragile" is so relative, like some people would be terrified to break a porcelain bjd's fingers, but it doesn't scare me (assuming normal use). About fragility, well porcelain restorer forums are always full of requests about what to do for broken lace on Dresden figures. The lace is ranked as highly fragile, and this is on a static figure that is not ball jointed or played with. Bjd fingers are nowhere near Dresden lace fragility. So you see my misgivings about porcelain lace at a jointed neck area. Actually, it would have to be done in another way than the Dresden slip-dipped cotton lace technique. . I can't understand your misgivings. Did you think I lie? I told, I made that lace, and it NOT fragile.
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Sutton
Senior Member
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Post by Sutton on Sept 22, 2015 5:49:05 GMT -8
About fragility, well porcelain restorer forums are always full of requests about what to do for broken lace on Dresden figures. The lace is ranked as highly fragile, and this is on a static figure that is not ball jointed or played with. Bjd fingers are nowhere near Dresden lace fragility. So you see my misgivings about porcelain lace at a jointed neck area. Actually, it would have to be done in another way than the Dresden slip-dipped cotton lace technique. . I can't understand your misgivings. Did you think I lie? I told, I made that lace, and it NOT fragile. It's now your reaction that is giving me misgivings, not the lace anymore.
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Post by rafael on Sept 22, 2015 7:02:41 GMT -8
. I can't understand your misgivings. Did you think I lie? I told, I made that lace, and it NOT fragile. It's now your reaction that is giving me misgivings, not the lace anymore. I would greatly appreciate you keeping my character and my work separate. If you don’t like me that is fine, but my works speaks for itself, and that is what is in question here on this forum. We are here to enjoy, love and appreciate PORCELAIN DOLLS, not the characters of the artists that produce them. That being said, if you don’t have anything nice to say about me or my dolls please reframe from posting on this thread. I do not go about posting negative things on your threads.
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Post by allurose on Sept 22, 2015 7:03:12 GMT -8
Rafael, we are not making accusations. We are just speculating about the technique you have used, because you have make something new to us. I look forward to seeing your final product.
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Sutton
Senior Member
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Post by Sutton on Sept 22, 2015 7:53:40 GMT -8
It's now your reaction that is giving me misgivings, not the lace anymore. I would greatly appreciate you keeping my character and my work separate. If you don’t like me that is fine, but my works speaks for itself, and that is what is in question here on this forum. We are here to enjoy, love and appreciate PORCELAIN DOLLS, not the characters of the artists that produce them. That being said, if you don’t have anything nice to say about me or my dolls please reframe from posting on this thread. I do not go about posting negative things on your threads. I don't make or sell porcelain dolls so any negative comments about my dolls should be directed towards the maker(s). Also, this is a PUBLIC forum, where as customers, or potential customers, we are allowed to be skeptical in a polite way. Please refrain from telling me on which thread I can post.
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Post by elmuneco on Sept 22, 2015 9:42:32 GMT -8
Such new and exciting things coming up for BiDoll!!!! Rafael your Lithe looks to be turning out absolutely breathtaking!!! And the porcelain lace on your new BiDoll is EXQUISITE!!!! I couldn't help but notice, is the tattoo on her chest a grasshopper like the Heema artwork on the BiDoll box?^^ ~Anthony
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Post by ivdolls on Sept 22, 2015 16:17:44 GMT -8
Such new and exciting things coming up for BiDoll!!!! Rafael your Lithe looks to be turning out absolutely breathtaking!!! And the porcelain lace on your new BiDoll is EXQUISITE!!!! I couldn't help but notice, is the tattoo on her chest a grasshopper like the Heema artwork on the BiDoll box?^^ ~Anthony I think its a dragonfly. Love dragonflies. Editing: Yana confirmed that this is a grasshopper with open wings, the one from her logo.
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Post by ivdolls on Sept 23, 2015 15:09:33 GMT -8
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